Concrit: my eyes glazeth over
Oct. 9th, 2008 04:19 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I'm sure everyone's sick of talking about concrit now (shut up and go do something productive! I tell myself as I type), but I'm gonna add one little thing to the discussion.
Concrit is all wonderful and important, yadda yadda yadda, but I wonder if we should be harping on it so much. It's such a heavy term, and when you discuss it over and over the effect is something like OMG CONSTRUCTIVE! CRITICISM! MUST BE INSIGHTFUL AND NOT LAME! NO PRESSURE THO GUYS! I get the feeling that most people (including me) don't feel very confident in their ability to give good concrit. And even if we could, the fact is that everyone is too busy/lazy to give it on a regular basis (except
aiwritingfic, but she's criminally insane). What's worse, even if people do take the time to give concrit it doesn't mean that authors are going to act on the feedback they receive. I mean, Ai gave me feedback on my first blind_go fic a year and a half ago and I still haven't made changes to the fic. And I specifically asked her for comments! I'm a terrible person, I know, and not everyone is as lazy as me...but I think this kind of thing is bound to happen.
I think concrit is...inefficient. When an author posts a fic, they've probably already thought hard on it, ironed out the prose, made it all nice and pretty and (hopefully) spell-checked. Having someone tell you "I think you need to cut this entire scene" after you've already invested so much time on it--that's pretty heart-wrenching (almost as heart-wrenching as LJ eating a long post, but I digress). I think it make more sense to give lots of suggestions to the author at the idea-generation and draft stages, rather than after a fic is finished (I'm assuming here that people actually do drafts). I guess that's called beta-reading, huh? Or editing, if you want to be old school.
I know that some people have beta readers, but not everyone does. I certainly don't. And yes, beta-ing and concrit are different things, with different consequences. I'm just saying that maybe we should stop worrying so much about the latter and worry more about the former. They're both time-consuming. They're both rather unlikely to happen if they aren't happening already. But I think people are more willing to make changes to a fic at the beta stage, rather than the I'm-done-the-fic-just-let-it-die-stage.
I'm not suggesting we all start pairing off with beta readers and having orgasmic literary experiences in our own little corners of the internets (not that there's anything wrong with that). What I'm saying is, let's have literary orgies instead! As in,
toko's idea to create an all-purpose anon community for Hikago might be kind of cool. A low-pressure space where people can gain experience and confidence in giving useful feedback. Or just get out of the habit of only saying positive things. Or just flail a lot. IN ALL CAPS. I'm sure the whole thing is going to be rife with drama because anon things always are, but maybe it'll be fun and useful too. Social experimentation GO! Er, provided the comm actually happens.
Concrit is all wonderful and important, yadda yadda yadda, but I wonder if we should be harping on it so much. It's such a heavy term, and when you discuss it over and over the effect is something like OMG CONSTRUCTIVE! CRITICISM! MUST BE INSIGHTFUL AND NOT LAME! NO PRESSURE THO GUYS! I get the feeling that most people (including me) don't feel very confident in their ability to give good concrit. And even if we could, the fact is that everyone is too busy/lazy to give it on a regular basis (except
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I think concrit is...inefficient. When an author posts a fic, they've probably already thought hard on it, ironed out the prose, made it all nice and pretty and (hopefully) spell-checked. Having someone tell you "I think you need to cut this entire scene" after you've already invested so much time on it--that's pretty heart-wrenching (almost as heart-wrenching as LJ eating a long post, but I digress). I think it make more sense to give lots of suggestions to the author at the idea-generation and draft stages, rather than after a fic is finished (I'm assuming here that people actually do drafts). I guess that's called beta-reading, huh? Or editing, if you want to be old school.
I know that some people have beta readers, but not everyone does. I certainly don't. And yes, beta-ing and concrit are different things, with different consequences. I'm just saying that maybe we should stop worrying so much about the latter and worry more about the former. They're both time-consuming. They're both rather unlikely to happen if they aren't happening already. But I think people are more willing to make changes to a fic at the beta stage, rather than the I'm-done-the-fic-just-let-it-die-stage.
I'm not suggesting we all start pairing off with beta readers and having orgasmic literary experiences in our own little corners of the internets (not that there's anything wrong with that). What I'm saying is, let's have literary orgies instead! As in,
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Date: 2008-10-09 11:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-10-10 12:59 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-10-10 01:19 am (UTC)However, once you've actually decided, 'OK, this fic is AS FINISHED AS I WANT IT TO BE,' and posted it to your LJ/mailinglist/communities, and you ask for concrit, you're inviting people who haven't seen your drafts, or looked at earlier versions with a critical eye, to give their fresh thoughts. What's also worth noting is that concrit isn't just to help you to look at your work and see what could have been changed, or worked out differently--it is also there to help you in future works. It's not the case that people should only look at unfinished work and offer criticism; rather, it's just as valid to critique a finished, published work. The writer can then take the comments into consideration for future works, or even redrafts.
If you look, for example, at an academic text, it is essential to consider the edition from which you are working/quoting/whatevering, because no matter how much the author thought (at the original time of publication) that their work was complete or perfect, or so on, in 99% of cases they discover (from what boils down to 'concrit') that there was a flaw in their argument; that they missed something crucial; or, heck, even that there were some mundane errors that were missed on the first forty sweeps through.
I have later edition philosophy books which are filled with extra papers and arguments arose from critiques of the early editions (in some cases, the critiques themselves are published). These are not books that were published while the author felt that they were incomplete--in some cases, they were written and critiqued over a decade before publication--but once they were opened to a wider audience, the received comments spurred the authors to add appendices, new prefaces, or even change the text itself.
I don't at all mean to disparage the beta-reading process at all. I think that in all cases, having someone else read through your work (at whatever stage) is beneficial. Some people choose not to use a beta-reader, and that is of course their prerogative (because, hey, we all write for fun here), but I cannot think of any serious writers, academic or otherwise, who would publish without editing (or, in most cases, who would be able to publish without editing!). (And those writers who kick up a fuss about editing their work are reviled by publishers. My sister works in publishing, and often tells me tales of which authors are most hated by their editors.)
So, this is a very long and rambly comment. Basically, beta-readers, yay! concrit, also yay! but concrit =/= telling you to go back and change the text, but also giving you information about your writing that you can take with you and use in the future!
Long rambly comments for the win!
From:And
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Date: 2008-10-10 01:21 pm (UTC)This is how I know people don't like what I say and therefore pretend I never said what I said. ^_~ *loves you, snuggles*
Having someone tell you "I think you need to cut this entire scene" after you've already invested so much time on it--that's pretty heart-wrenching
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